I grew up in a small town. I’ve noticed after many years those kids I grew up with who went away to college, the military, or moved to big cities are rather liberal and accepting of others. The kids who never traveled more than a couple hundred miles from their home town turned out to be bigots and racists.
Nailed it there, Stephen. Grew upon a large city with relatives living in the Mississippi Delta and ignorance remains the norm there 50 years later first experiencing their inbred ilk. As their numbers dwindle, their contempt of those living anywhere else grows exponentially. Quit going to family reunions since they became nothing but hatefests and blamefests. Sorry, no time for their toxicity...
I wanted to comment on “What Church do you go to?”. That question is asked in the suburbs, cities and even businesses by employee cliques in my experience.
I’d be asked about church affiliation at schools, jobs and young people gatherings. As a full of “Vim & Vinegar” 20 something, agnostic, I’d ask first if they were Christian. Usually yes. Then I’d ask if they knew where the New T indicated the Temple of God is located. Usually blank stare. I’d tell them it says the Temple of God is not here or there. It is in You. Then try to move on. I wouldn’t shun them but wouldn’t worry about their response. Fortunately, in more populated areas, there are more and varied individuals to find association.
Yes, I had some respond to that notion. I’d expand my interpretation of the text to mean I was always in church and that the physical building was only secondary. What good is religion if it’s not practiced constantly? If they were not Catholic I would reference the Protestant Martin Luther’s teachings that people can interpret the Bible for themselves.
Eventually, I’d slowly back away from the Fundies.
That struck me too. If the first question was about church affiliation that would put me right off. Find me the people who weren’t interested. They are my folks.
I lived in Andover, Mass in the 50s. I guess we all knew who belonged where, but it didn’t seem to matter much. My problem was being English with an Irish Principal in the school. Boy, did she have it in for me! fortunately my class teacher was kind.
I grew up in Appalachia in the 1960-70s. My parents were both college professors in a nearby town but chose to raise us in the country, a decision I know they regretted. I was bullied horribly. I remember the teacher asking the class how many went to church on Sunday and every hand shot up except mine. My parents were atheists. And I just never went along with the crowd even though it could have made my life easier. That’s not how I was raised. In any case, I would have been found out. Now, through a strange twist of fate I live again in rural Appalachia—my husband is a professor at a university about 15 miles away. I have been reliving a lot of the same stories as I did then, but adult bullying looks a little different. But I am hopeful that we will soon leave, mostly because of the chaos that is currently happening in the US. My husband is a naturalized citizen, a person of color, and a climate change scientist. So we do not feel safe. I look forward to the day when I can finally turn my back on rural America
One doesn’t have to be “the new kid” to be shunned by the small town mafia. My family has been in this rural community for 5 generations. We were here when there were only a few families in the whole area. But the church thing sorted many of people off, last name was a big determinant on who was accepted as well. Did you rodeo? To what political party does your family belong? Were you seen being kind to someone who wasn’t accepted by the herd? Then the evangelicals came for the children. “Rodeo Bible Camp” and “Bible Basketball Camp” gave parents a place to stash their kids when they weren’t in school. They didn’t see the indoctrination, gaslighting and continued bullying going on behind the scenes. The “religious right” gained many this way, they raised them.
We let ourselves become sorted and twisted over a couple of generations. Our attempts to change this are met with attacks from the rabid right. More work needs done…..
The last place I feel comfortable is a small town. I stay far away. I believe your experience. I watched it growing up. I rode a school bus into town from the farm, but our town was bigger than yours, I think. And, my mom was known, she fit in, so I also “passed” as a city kid. The other farm bus kids were not so lucky or well-dressed or well-spoken or well-mannered. I watched it happen to other kids like it was a Public Service Announcement - act like you come from money or be ostracized. It may not be the same thing kids have to pretend to be in every small town, for me it was $, but pretending is required if you’re not born into the club. If a kid isn’t trained & dressed to pretend, they are not as likely to be treated well by their peers.
I spent a lot of my time trying to maintain my position and not drop any lower. There were kids who had a far worse experience than I did. We're kind of indoctrinated to have blinders in the USA, it's sad. Thanks for the kind words!
Being raised to pretend to be a rich kid is its own hell. It’s teaching your kid they’re not worthy 24/7. And, I developed a bit of a snobby affect, which does not serve me well in rural areas if I forget to code switch.
I grew up in a rural community. It was exactly as cruel as you remember. I distinctly remember a new family coming to the church one Sunday and all the bitties rattling on about how they didn’t belong there after. That was my first exposure the sheer hatred of Christian love.
Had the exact experience when I was growing up. By my senior year of high school, I was withdrawn, and very negative. I still live in a rural area. I have 2 good neighbors and they didn't grow up here. I can tell you when I saw my own children being treated like I was, I stood up and said something. Silence is not an answer!
Thank you Sandy! I really appreciate affirming comments like yours because otherwise the gaslighting starts. People deny this reality, and this is what we have to fight back against!
Grew up in a small town, we couldn't have dances because of the Baptist Church. If you didn't attend that church or have the last name of someone who did you were considered trash.
All of us "losers" stuck together and had a good time. Taught me to be independent and gave me a thick skin.
Wow, you grew up in the town from Footloose! Yeah, this casual ideology that depends on dividing people is something that's flown under the radar for too long. Thanks for sharing!
Sherwood Anderson spent much of his literary career dealing with small town sociology of this nature. I found "Winesburg, Ohio" fascinating as a result of how he made it seem like a normal, everyday thing in these places to both consciously and subconsciously exclude people who don't "fit".
I have endured this. (((Solidarity))) hugs. People don't understand if they've not lived a rural life how bad it can be or how long it can endure for. It's not always about your religion - I think that is a US phenomenon - disability, gender, race or poverty are also reasons.
I grew up in a small town. I’ve noticed after many years those kids I grew up with who went away to college, the military, or moved to big cities are rather liberal and accepting of others. The kids who never traveled more than a couple hundred miles from their home town turned out to be bigots and racists.
Nailed it there, Stephen. Grew upon a large city with relatives living in the Mississippi Delta and ignorance remains the norm there 50 years later first experiencing their inbred ilk. As their numbers dwindle, their contempt of those living anywhere else grows exponentially. Quit going to family reunions since they became nothing but hatefests and blamefests. Sorry, no time for their toxicity...
I wanted to comment on “What Church do you go to?”. That question is asked in the suburbs, cities and even businesses by employee cliques in my experience.
I’d be asked about church affiliation at schools, jobs and young people gatherings. As a full of “Vim & Vinegar” 20 something, agnostic, I’d ask first if they were Christian. Usually yes. Then I’d ask if they knew where the New T indicated the Temple of God is located. Usually blank stare. I’d tell them it says the Temple of God is not here or there. It is in You. Then try to move on. I wouldn’t shun them but wouldn’t worry about their response. Fortunately, in more populated areas, there are more and varied individuals to find association.
Most religious people I've met have been indoctrinated with a response to that argument. Still, it's a good one, thanks for sharing!
Yes, I had some respond to that notion. I’d expand my interpretation of the text to mean I was always in church and that the physical building was only secondary. What good is religion if it’s not practiced constantly? If they were not Catholic I would reference the Protestant Martin Luther’s teachings that people can interpret the Bible for themselves.
Eventually, I’d slowly back away from the Fundies.
Yeah, same experience here. What do you do, though, when they chase you :)
😂 turn around, snarl, growl and hiss
That struck me too. If the first question was about church affiliation that would put me right off. Find me the people who weren’t interested. They are my folks.
In smalltown America, the church is very much a mafia
I lived in Andover, Mass in the 50s. I guess we all knew who belonged where, but it didn’t seem to matter much. My problem was being English with an Irish Principal in the school. Boy, did she have it in for me! fortunately my class teacher was kind.
As a general rule, small towns lack economic opportunities and an openness to diversity.
Small towns are where dreams are squashed and suffocated by fear.
Small towns are abandoned by the residents therein; small towns choose their fate by pushing out the ones who might otherwise make them great.
Small towns are small because they reflect the soul of the community.
All of this is, of course, generally speaking.
Yes, that's been my experience too. Thank you so much for your kind comment!
I grew up in Appalachia in the 1960-70s. My parents were both college professors in a nearby town but chose to raise us in the country, a decision I know they regretted. I was bullied horribly. I remember the teacher asking the class how many went to church on Sunday and every hand shot up except mine. My parents were atheists. And I just never went along with the crowd even though it could have made my life easier. That’s not how I was raised. In any case, I would have been found out. Now, through a strange twist of fate I live again in rural Appalachia—my husband is a professor at a university about 15 miles away. I have been reliving a lot of the same stories as I did then, but adult bullying looks a little different. But I am hopeful that we will soon leave, mostly because of the chaos that is currently happening in the US. My husband is a naturalized citizen, a person of color, and a climate change scientist. So we do not feel safe. I look forward to the day when I can finally turn my back on rural America
One doesn’t have to be “the new kid” to be shunned by the small town mafia. My family has been in this rural community for 5 generations. We were here when there were only a few families in the whole area. But the church thing sorted many of people off, last name was a big determinant on who was accepted as well. Did you rodeo? To what political party does your family belong? Were you seen being kind to someone who wasn’t accepted by the herd? Then the evangelicals came for the children. “Rodeo Bible Camp” and “Bible Basketball Camp” gave parents a place to stash their kids when they weren’t in school. They didn’t see the indoctrination, gaslighting and continued bullying going on behind the scenes. The “religious right” gained many this way, they raised them.
That's a fascinating comment! Divisions are created in my community based on which soccer club you put your kids in.
Indoctrination, bullying, and gaslighting is the rural way.
We let ourselves become sorted and twisted over a couple of generations. Our attempts to change this are met with attacks from the rabid right. More work needs done…..
The last place I feel comfortable is a small town. I stay far away. I believe your experience. I watched it growing up. I rode a school bus into town from the farm, but our town was bigger than yours, I think. And, my mom was known, she fit in, so I also “passed” as a city kid. The other farm bus kids were not so lucky or well-dressed or well-spoken or well-mannered. I watched it happen to other kids like it was a Public Service Announcement - act like you come from money or be ostracized. It may not be the same thing kids have to pretend to be in every small town, for me it was $, but pretending is required if you’re not born into the club. If a kid isn’t trained & dressed to pretend, they are not as likely to be treated well by their peers.
I spent a lot of my time trying to maintain my position and not drop any lower. There were kids who had a far worse experience than I did. We're kind of indoctrinated to have blinders in the USA, it's sad. Thanks for the kind words!
Being raised to pretend to be a rich kid is its own hell. It’s teaching your kid they’re not worthy 24/7. And, I developed a bit of a snobby affect, which does not serve me well in rural areas if I forget to code switch.
I grew up in a rural community. It was exactly as cruel as you remember. I distinctly remember a new family coming to the church one Sunday and all the bitties rattling on about how they didn’t belong there after. That was my first exposure the sheer hatred of Christian love.
Thank you for the affirming comment!
Had the exact experience when I was growing up. By my senior year of high school, I was withdrawn, and very negative. I still live in a rural area. I have 2 good neighbors and they didn't grow up here. I can tell you when I saw my own children being treated like I was, I stood up and said something. Silence is not an answer!
Thank you Sandy! I really appreciate affirming comments like yours because otherwise the gaslighting starts. People deny this reality, and this is what we have to fight back against!
I was the kid from the trailer park, so they already knew about me on day one.
I will say it’s easier for people like me, who don’t really like other people all that much and prefer their own company to that of others.
This "othering" happens elsewhere, too. Initiated by women as well as men. It's one of humans' worst traits.
My experience exactly.
First they ask your name. Oh are you related to xxx?
Second what church do you go to? 10000 people 10 churches.
Where does your husband work?
If you answer these questions your are instantly categorized.
Sigh
Thanks for confirming this Diane! I get so many people who challenge my experience. It's always refreshing to have affirming comments!
Grew up in a small town, we couldn't have dances because of the Baptist Church. If you didn't attend that church or have the last name of someone who did you were considered trash.
All of us "losers" stuck together and had a good time. Taught me to be independent and gave me a thick skin.
Wow, you grew up in the town from Footloose! Yeah, this casual ideology that depends on dividing people is something that's flown under the radar for too long. Thanks for sharing!
Sherwood Anderson spent much of his literary career dealing with small town sociology of this nature. I found "Winesburg, Ohio" fascinating as a result of how he made it seem like a normal, everyday thing in these places to both consciously and subconsciously exclude people who don't "fit".
Thank you! One more for the list!
The Library of America edition of his stuff is the best one.
There are reasons I will never, ever, darken the door of my junior high school again. This is one.
reminds me of Twilight Zone episodes
I have endured this. (((Solidarity))) hugs. People don't understand if they've not lived a rural life how bad it can be or how long it can endure for. It's not always about your religion - I think that is a US phenomenon - disability, gender, race or poverty are also reasons.