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Courtney Sender's avatar

Thanks for the great conversation, @Walter Rhein !

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Walter Rhein's avatar

Thank you! It was so much fun and even this morning I was contemplating much of what we talked about. Actually, when I was walking the dog I left 2 lengthy voice notes that will probably turn into articles for The Writing Cooperative. It’s really good to get the larger perspective. We’re sharing our puzzle pieces and the picture is becoming clear!

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Courtney Sender's avatar

Looking forward to reading that piece whenever you write it!

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Courtney Sender's avatar

That would be great! We’ll make it happen.

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Walter Rhein's avatar

Hopefully it will be the starting point for another conversation!

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Jonathan Epps's avatar

I have self-published 4 novels, moved 25k units of those books and still feel like I have no forward momentum. It’s a tricky, nonsensical business. I just do what I do, come what may.

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Courtney Sender's avatar

25k units from self-publishing is a huge accomplishment! Have you done active marketing/advertising, or more word of mouth? And yes, momentum might look real from the outside, but from the inside it often feels illusory.

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Jonathan Epps's avatar

It's mostly marketing and a bit of word-of-mouth. I have tackled rather taboo subjects in my thrillers in uncompromising ways (mass shootings, Epstein-style trafficking, domestic abuse), so I think people are bit timid to recommend them though they are generally well-reviewed by both Kirkus and readership.

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Walter Rhein's avatar

That is impressive Jonathan! Is that both kindle and paperback (it's impressive either way)? You've got audio versions too I see. Great work!

Did you have a good experience with Kirkus?

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Jonathan Epps's avatar

Thank you. As you both know, it can often be a massive struggle. It's both Kindle and paperback but mostly Kindle. I've done all of this myself essentially but with essential help and support from a trusted editor-friend, ebooklaunch.com, and Kirkus. I've had great experiences with Kirkus; they've given me the "Get it" recommendation for two of the four books: three in a series; one stand-alone. And even the tepid reviews were informative. I don't mind even scathing reviews. I find it all interesting. I've had nothing but rejection for twenty-five years from every MFA program onward (I'm 47), so getting this far and being able to be legitimately independent is a kind of privilege.

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Sophie S.'s avatar

I'm enjoying these longer interviews that you've been doing lately!

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Walter Rhein's avatar

Thanks Sophie!

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Carl J Shoemaker's avatar

The de-evolution of quality

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Carl J Shoemaker's avatar

Bad screening process. Corporate gatekeepers

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Courtney Sender's avatar

Great article from Persuasion about this—

https://open.substack.com/pub/persuasion1/p/the-big-five-publishers-have-killed

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Carl J Shoemaker's avatar

The causal Democracy of the Streets

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Carl J Shoemaker's avatar

What does News not tell

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Story Carrier's avatar

Controlling the cultural narrative by excluding certain voices. Absolutely!!

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Walter Rhein's avatar

Thank you! I kind of stumbled into that thought while we were in the conversation and it seems like an idea that needs to be explored further. But the fact is that some stories are excluded from publication and I think smart people need to come up with a way to get around that. We give too much power to corporate publishing I think.

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Story Carrier's avatar

This follows Gramsci's theories of power and the control of narrative meaning. I find publishers tend to pick up on the overarching cultural narrative and follow it when they evaluate scripts. This is why platforms like Substack are so important.

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