What seems to really scare folks is to consider that nothing is divine. Nothing. No higher power, etc etc. that we are all products of a moment and nothing more. Wow. So, what's for lunch? Live your life as if THIS IS IT. Paradise is all around us. Enjoy it and do the best you can. Done.
Yeah, people need to think they're affiliated with "God" so they can think of themselves as superior. It's the essential root of any form of supremacy, and we need to talk about it.
I agree with these sentiments completely, as a math teacher I encountered a number of different types of students, the ones who did the best work in my class were the ones who were willing to apply them selves to study math and not to just regurgitate what they heard and could memorize from my lectures. I told them that they had to do their homework to be successful. Some believed me and would have serious questions which I gladly answered in depth of understanding because I knew that they were really learning the principles that I was teaching.
The sad part is that in the US, there's usually not much encouragement to get kids to take ownership of what they've learned. In many cases, it feels prohibited. I used to get scolded for using the lessons in ways other than what were suggested by the teacher (didn't stop me). Every now and then you'd get a good teacher that encouraged that exploration, but in my experience it was unusual. I went to a conservative, rural school that hated the concept of education. Thanks for the thoughtful comment!
What’s even scarier is that some look on a certain orange politician as sent by god.
I’ve long said, often to my detriment, that the bible was written by men who wanted to control the masses. It may have been inspired by prophets or who some feel is god, but regardless, it was written centuries after the events and if anyone who has played the game “gossip” can attest, word of mouth isn’t always accurate.
What would the world look like if all religions just accepted the idea that there are many paths to essentially the same end.
That's the only reason I could think of that people would overlook his flaws and vote for him even though he's so obviously devoid of competence or human empathy. Sigh...
People who think of themselves as prophets have continuously existed through the centuries. I ponder what kind of bible would be created now with all the stories available in the same vein as the bible of yore was put together with various books available at that time.
Thanks Dan, I appreciate hearing that. Part of the problem is that in our society we're not really allowed to follow these thoughts, and it's going to be a lot more difficult when the christian nationalists take over.
I was going to write more, since everything in your piece resonated strongly with me. I stopped at “brilliant” because, well, it is. I was brought up a cradle catholic so I know all about guilt, shame, and a punishing, retributive god. Ended my relationship with religion about three decades ago when I ran out of ways to justify “my belief.” Being a trained science educator helped. But being a dad who would look at the faces of his two beautiful children and think “you two are born with original sin and are flawed people. To save your souls, you have to believe like me, in the apocryphal teachings of men who have created this mythological being called god.” I couldn’t do it. My kids were perfect by default. I thought the world might crumble down upon my shoulders when I stopped pretending and believing. Turns out, the only thing that happened was a tremendous feeling of freedom. Plus, I got back an hour on Sunday!
I look forward to everything you write, Walter. So, know that your efforts have meaning out here in the world and have given me more ammunition to bolster my own arguments against our common foes. I appreciate you my friend.
That's so wonderful Kert! And I'm glad you came to the same realization about your kids as I did. Understanding that your kids are already perfect is the first step on the road to happiness!
Oh, thank Zeus, it's not just me. I had so much to write as well and then deleted it to come read comments.
In my search for gawd, I took myself to church starting in jr high. I quit in high school because the adults told me one too many times that we don't question gawd. Seriously, if a 16 year old has questions too tough for your gawd, I'm out.
I call myself an atheist on a gawd quest. My entire quest is nothing but questions, questioning everything. All of it - my beliefs, thoughts, and is there such a thing as original thought? Is it all built on everything before and different dots are connected to create a new perspective?
A question that has stuck with me for decades is: Would you rather live an extraordinary life in an ordinary world or live an ordinary life in an extraordinary world? My first instinct way back when was an extraordinary life in an ordinary world. Reflecting back, I see wanting to be special and in some secret society of knowledge, above the peasants, so to speak. I have settled into an ordinary life in an extraordinary world where I view it through the eyes of a 6 year old with adult reasoning. Everyone has access to the same knowledge if they choose to excavate the depths of existence. It has made all the difference in my life.
I could talk about this for hours, so I tried my best to give a flavor and bottom line to the way I see it.
What a lovely comment! Isn't it amazing how one simple idea, like the idea that a belief in god is harmful, opens the door to so many possibilities? Thank you for exploring them!
Okay, first of all, I LOVE that perspective: “living an ordinary life in an extraordinary world!” YES!!! This points us to the factual truth that life is incredibly rare in the Universe—at least as far as we can understand it.
Second, it’s always wonderful to find kindred spirits on Substack. Thanks for commenting, cuz now I’ve found you! Following and subscribing…now.
By the way, since you reference being “an atheist on a gawd quest,” LOVE THAT TOO! I love what I think Richard Dawkins says about himself when asked by believers: “Look, we’re all atheists. There are so many gods even you, dear christian, don’t believe in. I just go one god further.”
A great example of the "problem" in fiction is one of the greatest science fiction stories of all time, "The Microcosmic God" by Theodore Sturgeon. A man becomes the caretaker of an artificially grown miniature society; initially sympathetic, he eventually becomes a Divine tyrant.
You see evidence of flaws, but that doesn't mean human beings are flawed. I propose that the flaws are due to deceitful teachings. The evidence of that is that when you teach people a humanitarian message, it leads to a less oppressive society.
It doesn't come from a "fundamental flaw" otherwise there could be no good teaching. Mainly deceitful teaching is religion, and it comes from laziness.
Or from the fear of the realization that we are here. We are on our own. We are not enough. And of course, what religion teaches (christian) that we won't be rewarded with abundance, unless we believe and obey.
But then where does laziness and problems like religion come from, if not from us? I’m struggling to bridge the gap on this and I want to connect the ideas. It seems that these things (the bad and the good) either come from us, or they don’t, and if they do not, then where do they come from?
If a fundamentally flawed humanity would be incapable of good, and therefore we cannot square that with the good that we do, then that also seems to work in reverse. If we’re fundamentally good, then where do our flaws come from? Is there something outside of us that gave us religion? Why are we lazy if were fundamentally good, and goodness is opposed to laziness? This bothers me
What. You mean under old toilet face Biden, humanitarian society where. People with jobs are sleeping on the streets in San Francisco,Walmart has left Portland Oregon,all the smart intelligent Yanks have left your sinking ship while the goings good,they all now live in Portugal,France,Italy etc let's hope they don't bring too many USA imperatives with them and fuck up those countries. "I want it now and in multiple flavours".
A useful alternative view of human societies, Christianity, and the Scapegoat mechanism revealed at the heart of many religions came from René Girard, the late anthropological philosopher. Divinity helps justify the scapegoating that can unite a community, but preserves the ritual of sacrificial violence. Girard hoped that the revelation of the Scapegoat mechanism to its practitioners would eventually end the cycle of scapegoating and its ritual violence. For the present, the 21st century remains enslaved to its rituals.
In my community I have always been the scapegoat (aka Village Idiot + even wearer of The Scarlet Letter) needing an OTHER to hate on seems to be a perpetual human need. It's tough BEING the Other. As at least 45K Gaza folk have experienced so far. So who is my OTHER,who do I hate in - that bunch of dirt scum bag mafisosi the CIA. That's my focus of hatred.
Girard's intent was to reveal the innocence of the scapegoat and the real reason for the scapegoating ritual - to allow a community to resolve what he referred to as 'mimetic rivalry' so that it didn't tear itself apart. Once you realize that the violence arises not from the scapegoat, but the dangerous jealousies within a group, you can leave scapegoating behind to clearly view and resolve those rivalries directly. Violence will beget more violence until the ritual cycle is stopped.
Great piece, Walter :-) reflecting most of my thinkings on the subject as well!
I'd like to add something about evolution, being an evolutionary biologist myself ^^. Evolution is not prescriptive or a force of nature out there. That is why I always say I don't believe in evolution since my belief has little to do with the description of how life works (similar to the fact that I don't need to believe in gravity for it to be a thing, distortion of the space time continuum and all). Evolution is descriptive, it is the way we humans describe what happens over time in populations (the change of their allele frequencies): if x, y, and z ... then evolution. If we are looking at evolution by natural selection, x is variation of the trait, y is heritability of the trait, and z is differential reproductive success due to the trait. I precise what type of evolution we are looking at because there are many (natural, sexual, group, multilevel, mutation, genetic drift, and I'm sure there is one I'm missing here).
To sum up, evolution is the most widely known scientific theory out there ... but the least understood.
PS: I don't personally think I fully understand evolution, just putting that out there.
Evolution works whether you believe in it or not! Yes, that's a terrific distinction. The idea of dismantling the significance of belief. "I don't believe in numbers, I accept them as facts of our reality." You've got me thinking, thank you! It's so easy to get a little imprecise with language, thanks for taking note of those moments, it's very helpful and it's often absolutely critical!
Yes! This life is it and we can make the best we can of it and that is enough. We don't have to reach for "the third thing" as Marcus Aurelius calls it, the praise, adoration or "divine-ness" of living. Just being alive can be enough. Related to the topic that you wrote about: have you read "Mental Immunity" by Andy Norman? It's about how to innoculate yourself against bad ideas (like "you're a sinner").
Response #2 to your quite remarkable post; people are not sinful just because they are a darker complexion, they are not sinful because they speak a different language or may be escaping a draconian regime that terrorizes them with gangs and laws that keep them down. They are a vibrant part of this world and deserve the same chance for a good life as everyone else. They can and have contributed to the development of the country for years. When a country starts rejecting its immigrants it is in the first stages of decline. Read the book "Day of Empire" by Amy Chua to see how empires over the ages fail when they reject people in lands that they have concurred. We are on that slippery path to disintegration.
But THEY are DEFINITELY Sinful if they are a WOMAN,full stop actually,but indisputably if the woman is UGLY. An attractive woman can either be very virtuous and keep any indiscretions well sub rosa and be respected and admired or if beautiful can go the super sexy way,be desired by men,be criticized but perhaps envied secretly by women. Maybe have a decade or so of being both an icon of sex and a joke. But then maybe get rediscovered or seen in a new light. But a "too ugly to shag woman" sorry to be coarse but that's the point isnt it.
Wait! Not a sinner. Thank you. I don't believe in it either. Or shame for that matter.
On the evening of the NBA Cups championship game in Las Vegas, the TV station, ABC, allowed a commercial that had nothing to do with basketball. IT was Franklin Graham reciting the Christmas story, and then saying that we are all sinners and need to come to Jesus. Even provided a telephone number to call. I wanted to throw up! He scrunched his eyes up tightly and said a little prayer. It was all so bogus. And these little stories have enslaved millions of people for centuries. I wonder if Jesus uses iOS or Android. What color is your phone?
I wish every time somebody was allowed a platform to say "we are all sinners" somebody else was allowed equal time to say "there is no such thing as sin, you are not a sinner, don't let people tell you that." Unfortunately, if you even suggest that accommodation, you're often treated with hostility or even violence!
What seems to really scare folks is to consider that nothing is divine. Nothing. No higher power, etc etc. that we are all products of a moment and nothing more. Wow. So, what's for lunch? Live your life as if THIS IS IT. Paradise is all around us. Enjoy it and do the best you can. Done.
Yeah, people need to think they're affiliated with "God" so they can think of themselves as superior. It's the essential root of any form of supremacy, and we need to talk about it.
I agree with these sentiments completely, as a math teacher I encountered a number of different types of students, the ones who did the best work in my class were the ones who were willing to apply them selves to study math and not to just regurgitate what they heard and could memorize from my lectures. I told them that they had to do their homework to be successful. Some believed me and would have serious questions which I gladly answered in depth of understanding because I knew that they were really learning the principles that I was teaching.
The sad part is that in the US, there's usually not much encouragement to get kids to take ownership of what they've learned. In many cases, it feels prohibited. I used to get scolded for using the lessons in ways other than what were suggested by the teacher (didn't stop me). Every now and then you'd get a good teacher that encouraged that exploration, but in my experience it was unusual. I went to a conservative, rural school that hated the concept of education. Thanks for the thoughtful comment!
What’s even scarier is that some look on a certain orange politician as sent by god.
I’ve long said, often to my detriment, that the bible was written by men who wanted to control the masses. It may have been inspired by prophets or who some feel is god, but regardless, it was written centuries after the events and if anyone who has played the game “gossip” can attest, word of mouth isn’t always accurate.
What would the world look like if all religions just accepted the idea that there are many paths to essentially the same end.
That's the only reason I could think of that people would overlook his flaws and vote for him even though he's so obviously devoid of competence or human empathy. Sigh...
People who think of themselves as prophets have continuously existed through the centuries. I ponder what kind of bible would be created now with all the stories available in the same vein as the bible of yore was put together with various books available at that time.
Thinking on it, if I were going to attribute his “coming” to anything biblical, I would consider the title of the “Antichrist”.
It would probably be banned.
Excellent work Walter!
Thank you!
One of your best columns, Walter. It's a lot of what I have been thinking, but put concisely and clearly.
Thanks Dan, I appreciate hearing that. Part of the problem is that in our society we're not really allowed to follow these thoughts, and it's going to be a lot more difficult when the christian nationalists take over.
Brilliant.
That's very kind of you!
I was going to write more, since everything in your piece resonated strongly with me. I stopped at “brilliant” because, well, it is. I was brought up a cradle catholic so I know all about guilt, shame, and a punishing, retributive god. Ended my relationship with religion about three decades ago when I ran out of ways to justify “my belief.” Being a trained science educator helped. But being a dad who would look at the faces of his two beautiful children and think “you two are born with original sin and are flawed people. To save your souls, you have to believe like me, in the apocryphal teachings of men who have created this mythological being called god.” I couldn’t do it. My kids were perfect by default. I thought the world might crumble down upon my shoulders when I stopped pretending and believing. Turns out, the only thing that happened was a tremendous feeling of freedom. Plus, I got back an hour on Sunday!
I look forward to everything you write, Walter. So, know that your efforts have meaning out here in the world and have given me more ammunition to bolster my own arguments against our common foes. I appreciate you my friend.
That's so wonderful Kert! And I'm glad you came to the same realization about your kids as I did. Understanding that your kids are already perfect is the first step on the road to happiness!
Oh, thank Zeus, it's not just me. I had so much to write as well and then deleted it to come read comments.
In my search for gawd, I took myself to church starting in jr high. I quit in high school because the adults told me one too many times that we don't question gawd. Seriously, if a 16 year old has questions too tough for your gawd, I'm out.
I call myself an atheist on a gawd quest. My entire quest is nothing but questions, questioning everything. All of it - my beliefs, thoughts, and is there such a thing as original thought? Is it all built on everything before and different dots are connected to create a new perspective?
A question that has stuck with me for decades is: Would you rather live an extraordinary life in an ordinary world or live an ordinary life in an extraordinary world? My first instinct way back when was an extraordinary life in an ordinary world. Reflecting back, I see wanting to be special and in some secret society of knowledge, above the peasants, so to speak. I have settled into an ordinary life in an extraordinary world where I view it through the eyes of a 6 year old with adult reasoning. Everyone has access to the same knowledge if they choose to excavate the depths of existence. It has made all the difference in my life.
I could talk about this for hours, so I tried my best to give a flavor and bottom line to the way I see it.
What a lovely comment! Isn't it amazing how one simple idea, like the idea that a belief in god is harmful, opens the door to so many possibilities? Thank you for exploring them!
Okay, first of all, I LOVE that perspective: “living an ordinary life in an extraordinary world!” YES!!! This points us to the factual truth that life is incredibly rare in the Universe—at least as far as we can understand it.
Second, it’s always wonderful to find kindred spirits on Substack. Thanks for commenting, cuz now I’ve found you! Following and subscribing…now.
By the way, since you reference being “an atheist on a gawd quest,” LOVE THAT TOO! I love what I think Richard Dawkins says about himself when asked by believers: “Look, we’re all atheists. There are so many gods even you, dear christian, don’t believe in. I just go one god further.”
Awesome!
A great example of the "problem" in fiction is one of the greatest science fiction stories of all time, "The Microcosmic God" by Theodore Sturgeon. A man becomes the caretaker of an artificially grown miniature society; initially sympathetic, he eventually becomes a Divine tyrant.
That sounds interesting. The name Theodore Sturgeon rings a bell.
He was an extraordinarily productive writer of short stories, so much that a current award for that format is named for him.
Yes, I'm sure I've read his work. I'm just old and I forget things :)
As a student of history I’d have thought the evidence for humanity’s flaws was overwhelming but perhaps that’s not considered scientific.
You see evidence of flaws, but that doesn't mean human beings are flawed. I propose that the flaws are due to deceitful teachings. The evidence of that is that when you teach people a humanitarian message, it leads to a less oppressive society.
Where does deceitful teaching come from then?
It doesn't come from a "fundamental flaw" otherwise there could be no good teaching. Mainly deceitful teaching is religion, and it comes from laziness.
Or from the fear of the realization that we are here. We are on our own. We are not enough. And of course, what religion teaches (christian) that we won't be rewarded with abundance, unless we believe and obey.
But then where does laziness and problems like religion come from, if not from us? I’m struggling to bridge the gap on this and I want to connect the ideas. It seems that these things (the bad and the good) either come from us, or they don’t, and if they do not, then where do they come from?
If a fundamentally flawed humanity would be incapable of good, and therefore we cannot square that with the good that we do, then that also seems to work in reverse. If we’re fundamentally good, then where do our flaws come from? Is there something outside of us that gave us religion? Why are we lazy if were fundamentally good, and goodness is opposed to laziness? This bothers me
What. You mean under old toilet face Biden, humanitarian society where. People with jobs are sleeping on the streets in San Francisco,Walmart has left Portland Oregon,all the smart intelligent Yanks have left your sinking ship while the goings good,they all now live in Portugal,France,Italy etc let's hope they don't bring too many USA imperatives with them and fuck up those countries. "I want it now and in multiple flavours".
A useful alternative view of human societies, Christianity, and the Scapegoat mechanism revealed at the heart of many religions came from René Girard, the late anthropological philosopher. Divinity helps justify the scapegoating that can unite a community, but preserves the ritual of sacrificial violence. Girard hoped that the revelation of the Scapegoat mechanism to its practitioners would eventually end the cycle of scapegoating and its ritual violence. For the present, the 21st century remains enslaved to its rituals.
In my community I have always been the scapegoat (aka Village Idiot + even wearer of The Scarlet Letter) needing an OTHER to hate on seems to be a perpetual human need. It's tough BEING the Other. As at least 45K Gaza folk have experienced so far. So who is my OTHER,who do I hate in - that bunch of dirt scum bag mafisosi the CIA. That's my focus of hatred.
Girard's intent was to reveal the innocence of the scapegoat and the real reason for the scapegoating ritual - to allow a community to resolve what he referred to as 'mimetic rivalry' so that it didn't tear itself apart. Once you realize that the violence arises not from the scapegoat, but the dangerous jealousies within a group, you can leave scapegoating behind to clearly view and resolve those rivalries directly. Violence will beget more violence until the ritual cycle is stopped.
Great piece, Walter :-) reflecting most of my thinkings on the subject as well!
I'd like to add something about evolution, being an evolutionary biologist myself ^^. Evolution is not prescriptive or a force of nature out there. That is why I always say I don't believe in evolution since my belief has little to do with the description of how life works (similar to the fact that I don't need to believe in gravity for it to be a thing, distortion of the space time continuum and all). Evolution is descriptive, it is the way we humans describe what happens over time in populations (the change of their allele frequencies): if x, y, and z ... then evolution. If we are looking at evolution by natural selection, x is variation of the trait, y is heritability of the trait, and z is differential reproductive success due to the trait. I precise what type of evolution we are looking at because there are many (natural, sexual, group, multilevel, mutation, genetic drift, and I'm sure there is one I'm missing here).
To sum up, evolution is the most widely known scientific theory out there ... but the least understood.
PS: I don't personally think I fully understand evolution, just putting that out there.
Evolution works whether you believe in it or not! Yes, that's a terrific distinction. The idea of dismantling the significance of belief. "I don't believe in numbers, I accept them as facts of our reality." You've got me thinking, thank you! It's so easy to get a little imprecise with language, thanks for taking note of those moments, it's very helpful and it's often absolutely critical!
If I'm a product of evolution then that process is seriously flawed. It can throw up a Joanna Lumley and it can throw up a Jane Baker. Not so helpful.
Nice piece, Walter! Please see my friendly rebuttal. We may be "talking past" each other. Best, Jeff
An excellent read. The bible is a fairytale which has ruined so many lives
A lot of it is pretty grim,a big portion is questionable and a small fragment is transcendent wisdom.
Yes! This life is it and we can make the best we can of it and that is enough. We don't have to reach for "the third thing" as Marcus Aurelius calls it, the praise, adoration or "divine-ness" of living. Just being alive can be enough. Related to the topic that you wrote about: have you read "Mental Immunity" by Andy Norman? It's about how to innoculate yourself against bad ideas (like "you're a sinner").
Thanks for the book suggestion, I'll put it on my list! Thanks Sue!
Response #2 to your quite remarkable post; people are not sinful just because they are a darker complexion, they are not sinful because they speak a different language or may be escaping a draconian regime that terrorizes them with gangs and laws that keep them down. They are a vibrant part of this world and deserve the same chance for a good life as everyone else. They can and have contributed to the development of the country for years. When a country starts rejecting its immigrants it is in the first stages of decline. Read the book "Day of Empire" by Amy Chua to see how empires over the ages fail when they reject people in lands that they have concurred. We are on that slippery path to disintegration.
But THEY are DEFINITELY Sinful if they are a WOMAN,full stop actually,but indisputably if the woman is UGLY. An attractive woman can either be very virtuous and keep any indiscretions well sub rosa and be respected and admired or if beautiful can go the super sexy way,be desired by men,be criticized but perhaps envied secretly by women. Maybe have a decade or so of being both an icon of sex and a joke. But then maybe get rediscovered or seen in a new light. But a "too ugly to shag woman" sorry to be coarse but that's the point isnt it.
Wait! Not a sinner. Thank you. I don't believe in it either. Or shame for that matter.
On the evening of the NBA Cups championship game in Las Vegas, the TV station, ABC, allowed a commercial that had nothing to do with basketball. IT was Franklin Graham reciting the Christmas story, and then saying that we are all sinners and need to come to Jesus. Even provided a telephone number to call. I wanted to throw up! He scrunched his eyes up tightly and said a little prayer. It was all so bogus. And these little stories have enslaved millions of people for centuries. I wonder if Jesus uses iOS or Android. What color is your phone?
I wish every time somebody was allowed a platform to say "we are all sinners" somebody else was allowed equal time to say "there is no such thing as sin, you are not a sinner, don't let people tell you that." Unfortunately, if you even suggest that accommodation, you're often treated with hostility or even violence!
One of the best pieces I’ve ever read. Bravo.👏🏼 👏🏼👏🏼
I appreciate that compliment very much Valerie, thank you!