You are 100% in the right on this. Just like one doesn't negotiate with terrorists, one also doesn't negotiate with Trumpers--they are terrorists, too.
I have withdrawn from relationships with Trumpists, including declining a marriage proposal.
Before 2020, Trumpist friends started trying to force me to agree with them and vote for Trump. They rejected facts out of hand and defaulted to Fox News talking points that were the same as Russia’s news reports. Even then the linkage was obvious if one just observed. They did not think for themselves anymore.
Those friendships were damaged permanently. Even if I occasionally socialized again with those friends we were never as close again. I am withdrawing more from them now as they are emboldened to openly express prepackaged views that are becoming more extreme than ever.
Yeah, they say they "Think for themselves" and that they are "fair and balanced" and that they "do their own research." Their whole means of communication is derivative. I haven't talked to any of them since 2020.
It’s so tempting to try and rationalise, reason with, have a discussion with Trumpers and those on the right. But it never ends well. Circular reasoning and blatant cognitive dissonance abound. I have to regularly remind myself “If I try to play chess with a pigeon, it doesn’t matter how good I am at chess, they will just shit on the board and knock over the pieces.” And, because I’m not even from the USA (though I do shudder at what US politics mean for the rest of us, because they DO have an impact), I have to remind myself “not my circus, not my monkeys.” And try to get some sleep at night.
Isn’t it awful though, the thought that we have to stop having calm, rational discussions and just cut these people off? Because how will anything change? In saying that, just the act of withdrawing is a signal. And probably the best one any of us can give.
I think withdrawing from people does impact them. Wasting your time talking to them certainly doesn't. But you're right, I'm concerned we erode the path to change. Then again, we've got a zero tolerance policy in the country on a few scattered symbols of racism (not enough of them, but some of them), so a signal that something simply isn't acceptable does have an effect. It's just setting boundaries. Thanks for the thoughtful comment!
💯 I’ve completely cut out one of my siblings. He had actually made numerous death threats against me for not being behind tRUMP. He’s in trouble for a swatting incident now. He will never admit he’s wrong. This is based not only on what we see with MAGats, but based on his history of making thousands of bad choices, refusing to admit he was wrong and blaming anyone and everyone else. This will be no different. One of my other siblings refuses to give up hope he will come around. But not me. I’m done.
Yeah, sometimes you've got to get away and watch your own back. The swatting incident sounds serious. Somebody could have gotten killed. Stay safe. Thanks for the comment!
It’s really disappointing to look at people you once considered friends when they embrace Trump and his platform. It’s really difficult to separate the image of the charitable actions they might commit in our community with the awful beliefs that simmer underneath.
There is no negotiation possible. Despite so many facts, they've drunk the KoolAid. I feel much better cutting loose from these people, than attempting to communicate. Sad, but I'd rather live among rational friends.
They make me very nervous. You never know if one of them might have a loaded gun lying around, or one that might fall out of the glove compartment or something. These guys are a tragedy waiting to happen. Too bad the innocent always end up suffering. Thanks for the comment!
As a European, the worry of being met with unexpected violence for political disagreement is almost unthinkable... thank God. But obviously the type of obsessive personalities that Trumpsters represent exist everywhere and when the society you live in creates gross inequalities, these types become emboldened. Scary.
Trump has been screaming for violence for 10 years. It’s frustrating that only now people start to denounce this behavior (and he’s still making calls for violence).
I’m always perplexed at how people act and vote in opposition to their own interests. I think it is desperation for status and the false promise of elitism that demagoguery instills. In the end, there will be very few elite and the rest will be still striving, forgotten, or enemies. At this intersection in US history all I would recommend to anyone is to “Vote for you, Vote Blue”
Or, as in the case of some (including within my own family) they vote the way they do because they GOT that Trump tax cut- they have more ($$$) to lose.
If you want to talk to them you’ll find them in the front pews at church.
Thank you. You're a very strong man. Best NOT to mingle or even interact with the White Christian Right. Something has happened to their brains. A form of brainwashing. Scary isn't it? One woman kept calling me murderer when I told her how I missed Obama as president for his calm, his sense of humor, basketball etc. She immediately assumed I support women's rights, abortion, etc. meaning therefore that I was a murderer. There is no ability to logically discuss anything. I am out of step and out of touch with these people, even siblings, because I have branded people like them as retarded, perhaps with an IQ of 50 or lower. (Also because of my warped sense of humor). You can't reason with people who can't reason. That's it!
Stay safe. Stay strong. Love and protect your family. 🌹
I never thought of it as "strength." Thanks for saying that. It feels like failure to walk away, but we need to take care of ourselves first. The calling people a "murder" thing has to stop. All they have are their hateful conspiracy theories. Also, once they label you as a murderer, there's no telling what they will feel justified in doing to you. Thanks for the kind words!
Perhaps my naiveté is showing, but I believe people can have honest disagreements about politics. Not everyone has to share my political views. But, what I cannot stand, and will not abide, is the willful, aggressive ignorance shown by the MAGA cultists. Supporting a convicted felon fascist degenerate rapist has nothing to do with being a “conservative”. But, such support has everything to do with being aggressively ignorant and ridiculously stupid on purpose. I do not need or want people like that in my life.
Walter, I'm sorry you experienced that. I've also had to walk away from friendships. Trumpism is the worst thing to have happened to America and the world. Unfortunately, your screen shots are too small on my phone and I couldn't enlarge them, so I couldn't read them. However, your experience was clear from the text of your post.
Thank you for letting me know that. I won't do that in the future. I do read the screenshots in the audio, but as you said, I don't think they're really necessary.
Thanks for sharing this. It's disconcerting that so many people are willing to set aside logic and what I assumed were universal human values like compassion and empathy to blindly follow a person or ideology. I suspect the appeal of an autocrat is the power they hold to institute a vision shared by their minions. Your friend's tacit admission that the vision is rooted in white supremacy is disturbing. The explicitly racist attacks on Vance's wife confirm this and get to the heart of MAGA dogma.
Fortunately, I have no Trumpist friends or family, though a few are Republicans. None of them spew Trumpist BS, but many also seem dead set against a Democratic president. They appear to be under the misimpression that this election is simply about Republican vs. Democratic governing policy. These are the only people who might be reached by logic, in my opinion, because at least policy is important to them. Most Trumpists, like your friend, are sadly too far gone to redeem.
Hi Walter, I have no idea where you live. I live in a Blue State. There are lots of Trump people here but less than some other places. It gives me some peace. I am so sorry you and your family are mistreated and threatened. Any number of our sweet neighbors are Trumpists. We refuse to discuss politics and they don’t bring it up. The other neighbors who share our opinions tell us who not to discuss politics with. So far this is working here. Ironically, some of the Trump supporters are very kind and loving to us. So we have been able to continue to respond to them similarly. God only knows what will happen if he wins. May you and your family be safe. Daniel
My wife is an immigrant, so I see their hostility more directly. My daughter got spit on in Spanish class last year, and we routinely hear cries of "this is America, we speak English here." Trump supporters keep voting to enable violence against the innocent. They'll find some reason to start attacking rational people eventually. Stay safe!
Walter, thank you for sharing. IMO that setting boundaries doesn't always work; they try to, pretending to have a dialogue. It's exhausting. The attitude is not only I'm right but I must prove to you how wrong you're.
Tried, and failed to make them understand, sharing the links to pee2025, and one responded with whataboutism, and how it's happening everywhere, and hasn't yet happened here 🙄😱. The brilliant answer from another one was that I'm going to sit out this election because it's not going to impact me, never mind that person has grown daughters but live in blue states!, and I have decided to not be concerned with all this.
Generally speaking the most frightening and shocking part is these are educated people, some with remarkable careers and achievements and are oversaturated in drumfp/rw/racist/badimmigrant/it'salllies coolaid.
It's not only exhausting but sad to the point that I wonder how did I miss this side of their personalities; one doesn't become racist overnight. And in case of a sibling just realizing the differences in spite of having grown under the same roof with the same parents.
Curious about your thoughts on the new “poll” stating 2/3 of Democratic voters want Biden out. It angers me. Unbelievably. I’m convinced that if we lose in November, it will be in large part because of these Democratic politicians.
How many people did they interview and where were they located? My thoughts on this is that it's part of a baseless conspiracy theory that Biden is in cognitive decline. It's frustrating how much traction this conspiracy theory gets because it's not backed by any medical analysis. As for me, I prefer that Biden stay in, but if anything that poll shows the terrible influence of manipulating the media.
YES THERE IS SHOUTING IN E-MAILS. WHAT, ARE YOU DEAF OR SOMETHING? DO I NEED TO ADD EXCLAMATION MARKS?!!!!!!!
What's your problem? Why won't you rise to my antagonism? No, seriously, seriously, you gotta problem or something? Yeah, you; I'm talking to you.
Ouch!
Absolutely no idea, officer, I was just talking nicely to this gentleman and he suddenly and aggressively slammed the door in my face. Charges? Well, actually, I guess I do. Jeez, some guys.
I remember way back just after Trumps election. I tried to reason that I understood the vote, honestly I got it. Then the resulting truth of who, what and how Trump is began to set the tone. I gave up on friends and family… MANY family- siblings too. I’m the black sheep as far as religion and politics. Now the few I speak to who obey the no politics no religion rules get to join my circle. Yes, it’s MY circle and my rules. Sad, bc we WERE close and that’s gone bc they decided a rapist, people hating con was who they cling to without apology.
You are 100% in the right on this. Just like one doesn't negotiate with terrorists, one also doesn't negotiate with Trumpers--they are terrorists, too.
I agree. Their compulsion to commit unhinged acts of violence makes them dangerous and unpredictable. Thanks for your comment!
I have withdrawn from relationships with Trumpists, including declining a marriage proposal.
Before 2020, Trumpist friends started trying to force me to agree with them and vote for Trump. They rejected facts out of hand and defaulted to Fox News talking points that were the same as Russia’s news reports. Even then the linkage was obvious if one just observed. They did not think for themselves anymore.
Those friendships were damaged permanently. Even if I occasionally socialized again with those friends we were never as close again. I am withdrawing more from them now as they are emboldened to openly express prepackaged views that are becoming more extreme than ever.
Yeah, they say they "Think for themselves" and that they are "fair and balanced" and that they "do their own research." Their whole means of communication is derivative. I haven't talked to any of them since 2020.
"i did my own research" LOL! I see that ALL the time!
It’s so tempting to try and rationalise, reason with, have a discussion with Trumpers and those on the right. But it never ends well. Circular reasoning and blatant cognitive dissonance abound. I have to regularly remind myself “If I try to play chess with a pigeon, it doesn’t matter how good I am at chess, they will just shit on the board and knock over the pieces.” And, because I’m not even from the USA (though I do shudder at what US politics mean for the rest of us, because they DO have an impact), I have to remind myself “not my circus, not my monkeys.” And try to get some sleep at night.
Isn’t it awful though, the thought that we have to stop having calm, rational discussions and just cut these people off? Because how will anything change? In saying that, just the act of withdrawing is a signal. And probably the best one any of us can give.
I think withdrawing from people does impact them. Wasting your time talking to them certainly doesn't. But you're right, I'm concerned we erode the path to change. Then again, we've got a zero tolerance policy in the country on a few scattered symbols of racism (not enough of them, but some of them), so a signal that something simply isn't acceptable does have an effect. It's just setting boundaries. Thanks for the thoughtful comment!
💯 I’ve completely cut out one of my siblings. He had actually made numerous death threats against me for not being behind tRUMP. He’s in trouble for a swatting incident now. He will never admit he’s wrong. This is based not only on what we see with MAGats, but based on his history of making thousands of bad choices, refusing to admit he was wrong and blaming anyone and everyone else. This will be no different. One of my other siblings refuses to give up hope he will come around. But not me. I’m done.
Yeah, sometimes you've got to get away and watch your own back. The swatting incident sounds serious. Somebody could have gotten killed. Stay safe. Thanks for the comment!
It’s really disappointing to look at people you once considered friends when they embrace Trump and his platform. It’s really difficult to separate the image of the charitable actions they might commit in our community with the awful beliefs that simmer underneath.
Maybe we could start staging some interventions. Ha! Imagine what they'd say.
There is no negotiation possible. Despite so many facts, they've drunk the KoolAid. I feel much better cutting loose from these people, than attempting to communicate. Sad, but I'd rather live among rational friends.
They make me very nervous. You never know if one of them might have a loaded gun lying around, or one that might fall out of the glove compartment or something. These guys are a tragedy waiting to happen. Too bad the innocent always end up suffering. Thanks for the comment!
As a European, the worry of being met with unexpected violence for political disagreement is almost unthinkable... thank God. But obviously the type of obsessive personalities that Trumpsters represent exist everywhere and when the society you live in creates gross inequalities, these types become emboldened. Scary.
Trump has been screaming for violence for 10 years. It’s frustrating that only now people start to denounce this behavior (and he’s still making calls for violence).
I’m always perplexed at how people act and vote in opposition to their own interests. I think it is desperation for status and the false promise of elitism that demagoguery instills. In the end, there will be very few elite and the rest will be still striving, forgotten, or enemies. At this intersection in US history all I would recommend to anyone is to “Vote for you, Vote Blue”
Or, as in the case of some (including within my own family) they vote the way they do because they GOT that Trump tax cut- they have more ($$$) to lose.
If you want to talk to them you’ll find them in the front pews at church.
And then I hate myself for my ugly thoughts.
I think they vote out of spite. That's a good campaign slogan!
Thank you. You're a very strong man. Best NOT to mingle or even interact with the White Christian Right. Something has happened to their brains. A form of brainwashing. Scary isn't it? One woman kept calling me murderer when I told her how I missed Obama as president for his calm, his sense of humor, basketball etc. She immediately assumed I support women's rights, abortion, etc. meaning therefore that I was a murderer. There is no ability to logically discuss anything. I am out of step and out of touch with these people, even siblings, because I have branded people like them as retarded, perhaps with an IQ of 50 or lower. (Also because of my warped sense of humor). You can't reason with people who can't reason. That's it!
Stay safe. Stay strong. Love and protect your family. 🌹
I never thought of it as "strength." Thanks for saying that. It feels like failure to walk away, but we need to take care of ourselves first. The calling people a "murder" thing has to stop. All they have are their hateful conspiracy theories. Also, once they label you as a murderer, there's no telling what they will feel justified in doing to you. Thanks for the kind words!
Perhaps my naiveté is showing, but I believe people can have honest disagreements about politics. Not everyone has to share my political views. But, what I cannot stand, and will not abide, is the willful, aggressive ignorance shown by the MAGA cultists. Supporting a convicted felon fascist degenerate rapist has nothing to do with being a “conservative”. But, such support has everything to do with being aggressively ignorant and ridiculously stupid on purpose. I do not need or want people like that in my life.
Walter, I'm sorry you experienced that. I've also had to walk away from friendships. Trumpism is the worst thing to have happened to America and the world. Unfortunately, your screen shots are too small on my phone and I couldn't enlarge them, so I couldn't read them. However, your experience was clear from the text of your post.
Thank you for letting me know that. I won't do that in the future. I do read the screenshots in the audio, but as you said, I don't think they're really necessary.
Thanks for sharing this. It's disconcerting that so many people are willing to set aside logic and what I assumed were universal human values like compassion and empathy to blindly follow a person or ideology. I suspect the appeal of an autocrat is the power they hold to institute a vision shared by their minions. Your friend's tacit admission that the vision is rooted in white supremacy is disturbing. The explicitly racist attacks on Vance's wife confirm this and get to the heart of MAGA dogma.
Fortunately, I have no Trumpist friends or family, though a few are Republicans. None of them spew Trumpist BS, but many also seem dead set against a Democratic president. They appear to be under the misimpression that this election is simply about Republican vs. Democratic governing policy. These are the only people who might be reached by logic, in my opinion, because at least policy is important to them. Most Trumpists, like your friend, are sadly too far gone to redeem.
Hi Walter, I have no idea where you live. I live in a Blue State. There are lots of Trump people here but less than some other places. It gives me some peace. I am so sorry you and your family are mistreated and threatened. Any number of our sweet neighbors are Trumpists. We refuse to discuss politics and they don’t bring it up. The other neighbors who share our opinions tell us who not to discuss politics with. So far this is working here. Ironically, some of the Trump supporters are very kind and loving to us. So we have been able to continue to respond to them similarly. God only knows what will happen if he wins. May you and your family be safe. Daniel
My wife is an immigrant, so I see their hostility more directly. My daughter got spit on in Spanish class last year, and we routinely hear cries of "this is America, we speak English here." Trump supporters keep voting to enable violence against the innocent. They'll find some reason to start attacking rational people eventually. Stay safe!
Walter, thank you for sharing. IMO that setting boundaries doesn't always work; they try to, pretending to have a dialogue. It's exhausting. The attitude is not only I'm right but I must prove to you how wrong you're.
Tried, and failed to make them understand, sharing the links to pee2025, and one responded with whataboutism, and how it's happening everywhere, and hasn't yet happened here 🙄😱. The brilliant answer from another one was that I'm going to sit out this election because it's not going to impact me, never mind that person has grown daughters but live in blue states!, and I have decided to not be concerned with all this.
Generally speaking the most frightening and shocking part is these are educated people, some with remarkable careers and achievements and are oversaturated in drumfp/rw/racist/badimmigrant/it'salllies coolaid.
It's not only exhausting but sad to the point that I wonder how did I miss this side of their personalities; one doesn't become racist overnight. And in case of a sibling just realizing the differences in spite of having grown under the same roof with the same parents.
It's sad how little influence we have over some people.
Curious about your thoughts on the new “poll” stating 2/3 of Democratic voters want Biden out. It angers me. Unbelievably. I’m convinced that if we lose in November, it will be in large part because of these Democratic politicians.
How many people did they interview and where were they located? My thoughts on this is that it's part of a baseless conspiracy theory that Biden is in cognitive decline. It's frustrating how much traction this conspiracy theory gets because it's not backed by any medical analysis. As for me, I prefer that Biden stay in, but if anything that poll shows the terrible influence of manipulating the media.
YES THERE IS SHOUTING IN E-MAILS. WHAT, ARE YOU DEAF OR SOMETHING? DO I NEED TO ADD EXCLAMATION MARKS?!!!!!!!
What's your problem? Why won't you rise to my antagonism? No, seriously, seriously, you gotta problem or something? Yeah, you; I'm talking to you.
Ouch!
Absolutely no idea, officer, I was just talking nicely to this gentleman and he suddenly and aggressively slammed the door in my face. Charges? Well, actually, I guess I do. Jeez, some guys.
I remember way back just after Trumps election. I tried to reason that I understood the vote, honestly I got it. Then the resulting truth of who, what and how Trump is began to set the tone. I gave up on friends and family… MANY family- siblings too. I’m the black sheep as far as religion and politics. Now the few I speak to who obey the no politics no religion rules get to join my circle. Yes, it’s MY circle and my rules. Sad, bc we WERE close and that’s gone bc they decided a rapist, people hating con was who they cling to without apology.