As a child, I always noticed the dissonance in what christians said vs what they publicly actually did. It only took me a few years as a young female to reject it altogether as complete controlling bullshit. Virtue signaling at its worst. The kindest, nicest, most at peace folks I know are atheists.
I think we need to have more public discussions to understand that racism fits into that radicalized mental state that is created by religion. That really changes our approach to how we combat it. Thanks for your kind words! As for me, I consider myself an agnostic. I concede there might be a greater power out there, but I don't presume to know it's plan for me. :)
Yes "as we know it," but I think there is a value in Christianity that's worth saving that will be emphasized if we remove sin. I think it's important to say that so my message is taken as in support of Christianity. I simply think we should look at the teachings of Jesus the same way we do any other ancient philosopher. There's good and there's bad. Thanks for the comment!
Thank you for the reply! I agree with you on the value of Jesus as a philosopher. I find more value in his words through the lens of philosophy than religion.
I was baptised as a Roman Catholic. Then I followed my father as a free thinking materialist all my life. I still love beautiful church buildings and music, but never knee down in a church, but stand proudly. I feel free, and for me Missa Solemnise is the blue sky, not the dark prison of slavery.
My neighbor, the dog walker, always gets out to the woods and says, "This is my church." I agree with that sentiment too. I read an article years ago about how sacred concepts are used to radicalize people. I think it's important to view racism in that context. Thanks for your thoughtful comment Zsolt!
Walter, I see a lot of offers here aimed at handling mental issues, burnouts, and the like. Being 81, I have never had any of those. When I am standing in the beautiful gothic building and listening to Mendelsohn or Beethoven, my mind is clear; I have no mental issues. I see my father’s proud face and am happy to have followed his example all my life.
That's beautiful Zsolt, and you're right, I should spend more time listening to classical music. Can you provide a couple of links to the specific recordings you like? I don't know much about it. I have a disk with Mozart's Requiem and that's about it.
Well, I am so glad you asked for it. Good classical music is better than a hundred psychiatry. I used to have about three hundred vinyl records; my wife donated them to a local music school, as we already had hundreds of CDs. Then, I recorded all of them on my Mac.
The easiest source now is classical music on YouTube. It is free, and you can find everything performed by different conductors, orchestras, and soloists. If you only have Mozart’s Requiem, it is a perfect one to start with. Remember Milos Forman’s Amadeus film closing pictures and the Requiem's heartbreaking music, first gently in the background, then louder and louder banging on your back.
Beethoven’s Symphonies No.3, 5, 7, and 9 are excellent to continue then
Mendelsohn’s violin concerto in E-minor, Ravel’s Bolero, Berlioz’s Symphony Fantastique, Bizet’s Carmen, Mussorskiy’s and Chaikovskiy’s, as well as Verdi’s and Puccini’s very different but equally beautiful operas, then Aron Copeland, Dvorak, Gustav Mahler, Leonard Bernstein and more than a thousand - for the beginning. Wagner and Bartók are beautiful, but for many they are difficult to decode. Of course, Simon and Garfunkel, Bob Dylan, The Beatles, the Bee Gees, Joan Baez, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, and the like go very well with the traditional classics.
When I lost my dear wife to leukemia three years ago, living for 60 full years together, I kept Radio Bartók, the classical music network in Hungary—switched on all day. It did help.
I know I managed to open a floodgate. If you do, too, you won’t be sorry.
Thank you Zsolt and my condolences on the loss of your wife. Yes, more and more I'm allowing the floodgates to open. You can only tuck away the pain for so long. I know quite a few of the names you mentioned, and I'm looking forward to exploring the rest! I'm glad they're all on YouTube. Normally I write while listening to a recording of the ocean waves. That's soothing too. But I'm eager to try some new things! Thanks again!
I am sure there are some classical music stations in your area, too. In my time ( 1978-82) WGMS Washington’s Good Music Station was on in my office and in my car. When I was on the road, PBS stations aired ckassical music. In the D.C.- N.Y.-Boston route I knew exactly where to switch to the next one.
Just one more story on the power of music from last October. I was visiting a meeting in the beautiful Danube Bend on Sunday morning and finished it with lunch. We dispersed, and I drove home. Gorgeous sunshine, meandering over the hills along the great river, recalling many of our weekend excursions with my wife there. Thinking of her is usually
full of joy. I suddenly felt like a stone was growing over my chest. The emotional pain turned physical. The reason was remembering and badly missing her. On Radio Bartók, famous musicians compared different performances of Beethoven’s No. V. I concentrated on the music. When I arrived home, they finished the debate by comparing small details and started to play the selected entire performance by Nicholas Harnoncourt without interruptions. I went into the house and switched on the radio. Put the volume high and felt the stone melting. I felt gradually liberated and happy. When I looked at her portrait on the wall, the stone was nowhere.
These people will not let go of hundreds of years of conditioning that have benefited them. The victims, who are also Christians, would do well to study “Liberation Theology” to understand the type of evil they are facing and how to survive, maybe even thrive.
In the eyes of some Christians, to be a "heretic" you have claim to be Christian. I am pretty sure the "bull" by Pope Alexander VI does not say "heretic" but instead says "Heathen".
Nonetheless, the first major Christian figure to advocate the usage of the arm of the regular goverment to suppress heresy was the 5th century figure St. Augustine. In the 11th century, shortly after the official split of the Eastern Orthodox and Western churches, the Western church started seeking to kill(!) heretics, of which the most notorious example is the Cathars. (This split coincides with calling the Western church the "Roman Catholic church", a term not used before that time.) The Eastern Orthodox churches generally do not suppress heresy via civil government, the just boot them out of the church.
=-=-=
I suppose the wildest example of Europe's transition from "cultural bigotry" to "race-based bigotry" can be found in comparing Martin Luther to Hitler. Luther advocated tremendous nasty cruelty towards Jews, burning synagogues etc. Nonetheless, when Hitler took control over the German chrurches, he mandated the defrocking of all (non-Catholic) clergy with ANY Jewish ancestry no matter how many generations back. If you were Protestant clergy that was 1/32nd Jewish, you were now defrocked. I would not give Luther any brownie points for this, but it is fair to assume this would have made no sense to him.
Walter you’re absolutely correct. Maybe someday we’ll all realize the damage that christianity has done to the world. Yes there’s a need for a deep conversation.
Christianity certainly deserves the opinions that it is a paternalistic control system using the psychologies of fear, othering, and damnation.
But Christianity developed from regions well steeped in slavery, class, wealth inequality, castes, and oppression of neighbors.
The taking of slaves by conquest or purchase has existed from the dawn of humanity. Labor and skills can be be bought and traded, and since they were the conquered, they were inferior.
We humans have used many religions across the world to control and oppress. We have also used guile and lies, fraud, and abuse to control forces to remove our protesters.
Absolutely on target, Walter. Thank you.
As a child, I always noticed the dissonance in what christians said vs what they publicly actually did. It only took me a few years as a young female to reject it altogether as complete controlling bullshit. Virtue signaling at its worst. The kindest, nicest, most at peace folks I know are atheists.
I think we need to have more public discussions to understand that racism fits into that radicalized mental state that is created by religion. That really changes our approach to how we combat it. Thanks for your kind words! As for me, I consider myself an agnostic. I concede there might be a greater power out there, but I don't presume to know it's plan for me. :)
I agree that the concept of sin ought be eradicated.
And it should be noted: erasing the idea of sin is tantamount to erasing Christianity -as we know it-.
Yes "as we know it," but I think there is a value in Christianity that's worth saving that will be emphasized if we remove sin. I think it's important to say that so my message is taken as in support of Christianity. I simply think we should look at the teachings of Jesus the same way we do any other ancient philosopher. There's good and there's bad. Thanks for the comment!
Thank you for the reply! I agree with you on the value of Jesus as a philosopher. I find more value in his words through the lens of philosophy than religion.
Wherever racism is, racist Christians are never far behind.
Ain't that the truth?
They betray their messiah with their cruelty.
Yes. But I also think the teachings of the messiah are flawed.
I agree. That’s why I “cancelled my subscription to the resurrection.”
I was baptised as a Roman Catholic. Then I followed my father as a free thinking materialist all my life. I still love beautiful church buildings and music, but never knee down in a church, but stand proudly. I feel free, and for me Missa Solemnise is the blue sky, not the dark prison of slavery.
My neighbor, the dog walker, always gets out to the woods and says, "This is my church." I agree with that sentiment too. I read an article years ago about how sacred concepts are used to radicalize people. I think it's important to view racism in that context. Thanks for your thoughtful comment Zsolt!
Walter, I see a lot of offers here aimed at handling mental issues, burnouts, and the like. Being 81, I have never had any of those. When I am standing in the beautiful gothic building and listening to Mendelsohn or Beethoven, my mind is clear; I have no mental issues. I see my father’s proud face and am happy to have followed his example all my life.
That's beautiful Zsolt, and you're right, I should spend more time listening to classical music. Can you provide a couple of links to the specific recordings you like? I don't know much about it. I have a disk with Mozart's Requiem and that's about it.
Well, I am so glad you asked for it. Good classical music is better than a hundred psychiatry. I used to have about three hundred vinyl records; my wife donated them to a local music school, as we already had hundreds of CDs. Then, I recorded all of them on my Mac.
The easiest source now is classical music on YouTube. It is free, and you can find everything performed by different conductors, orchestras, and soloists. If you only have Mozart’s Requiem, it is a perfect one to start with. Remember Milos Forman’s Amadeus film closing pictures and the Requiem's heartbreaking music, first gently in the background, then louder and louder banging on your back.
Beethoven’s Symphonies No.3, 5, 7, and 9 are excellent to continue then
Mendelsohn’s violin concerto in E-minor, Ravel’s Bolero, Berlioz’s Symphony Fantastique, Bizet’s Carmen, Mussorskiy’s and Chaikovskiy’s, as well as Verdi’s and Puccini’s very different but equally beautiful operas, then Aron Copeland, Dvorak, Gustav Mahler, Leonard Bernstein and more than a thousand - for the beginning. Wagner and Bartók are beautiful, but for many they are difficult to decode. Of course, Simon and Garfunkel, Bob Dylan, The Beatles, the Bee Gees, Joan Baez, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, and the like go very well with the traditional classics.
When I lost my dear wife to leukemia three years ago, living for 60 full years together, I kept Radio Bartók, the classical music network in Hungary—switched on all day. It did help.
I know I managed to open a floodgate. If you do, too, you won’t be sorry.
Thank you Zsolt and my condolences on the loss of your wife. Yes, more and more I'm allowing the floodgates to open. You can only tuck away the pain for so long. I know quite a few of the names you mentioned, and I'm looking forward to exploring the rest! I'm glad they're all on YouTube. Normally I write while listening to a recording of the ocean waves. That's soothing too. But I'm eager to try some new things! Thanks again!
I am sure there are some classical music stations in your area, too. In my time ( 1978-82) WGMS Washington’s Good Music Station was on in my office and in my car. When I was on the road, PBS stations aired ckassical music. In the D.C.- N.Y.-Boston route I knew exactly where to switch to the next one.
Just one more story on the power of music from last October. I was visiting a meeting in the beautiful Danube Bend on Sunday morning and finished it with lunch. We dispersed, and I drove home. Gorgeous sunshine, meandering over the hills along the great river, recalling many of our weekend excursions with my wife there. Thinking of her is usually
full of joy. I suddenly felt like a stone was growing over my chest. The emotional pain turned physical. The reason was remembering and badly missing her. On Radio Bartók, famous musicians compared different performances of Beethoven’s No. V. I concentrated on the music. When I arrived home, they finished the debate by comparing small details and started to play the selected entire performance by Nicholas Harnoncourt without interruptions. I went into the house and switched on the radio. Put the volume high and felt the stone melting. I felt gradually liberated and happy. When I looked at her portrait on the wall, the stone was nowhere.
Well said Walter.
Thanks William!
These people will not let go of hundreds of years of conditioning that have benefited them. The victims, who are also Christians, would do well to study “Liberation Theology” to understand the type of evil they are facing and how to survive, maybe even thrive.
That should be taught in schools.
In the eyes of some Christians, to be a "heretic" you have claim to be Christian. I am pretty sure the "bull" by Pope Alexander VI does not say "heretic" but instead says "Heathen".
Nonetheless, the first major Christian figure to advocate the usage of the arm of the regular goverment to suppress heresy was the 5th century figure St. Augustine. In the 11th century, shortly after the official split of the Eastern Orthodox and Western churches, the Western church started seeking to kill(!) heretics, of which the most notorious example is the Cathars. (This split coincides with calling the Western church the "Roman Catholic church", a term not used before that time.) The Eastern Orthodox churches generally do not suppress heresy via civil government, the just boot them out of the church.
=-=-=
I suppose the wildest example of Europe's transition from "cultural bigotry" to "race-based bigotry" can be found in comparing Martin Luther to Hitler. Luther advocated tremendous nasty cruelty towards Jews, burning synagogues etc. Nonetheless, when Hitler took control over the German chrurches, he mandated the defrocking of all (non-Catholic) clergy with ANY Jewish ancestry no matter how many generations back. If you were Protestant clergy that was 1/32nd Jewish, you were now defrocked. I would not give Luther any brownie points for this, but it is fair to assume this would have made no sense to him.
Walter you’re absolutely correct. Maybe someday we’ll all realize the damage that christianity has done to the world. Yes there’s a need for a deep conversation.
We just need to start talking about it. We can't be unwilling participants in this code of shame.
Congratulations. This contributes to the discussion.
Thank you Robert. That's actually a very powerful compliment and I appreciate it.
I agree
Thanks Vicki!
You're welcome and I will continue to my activist activities against the rumpty dumpty fascist regime of robber Barons
Christianity certainly deserves the opinions that it is a paternalistic control system using the psychologies of fear, othering, and damnation.
But Christianity developed from regions well steeped in slavery, class, wealth inequality, castes, and oppression of neighbors.
The taking of slaves by conquest or purchase has existed from the dawn of humanity. Labor and skills can be be bought and traded, and since they were the conquered, they were inferior.
We humans have used many religions across the world to control and oppress. We have also used guile and lies, fraud, and abuse to control forces to remove our protesters.
Race based slavery is different than slavery. Christianity developed racism.
I wasn't talking about human slaves. This post is about racism.
Christianity created racism.