I like the frank discussion. I would not worry about the naysayers. I also don’t worry about anyone has initials behind their name. I love visiting other countries and will continue to do so. Thanks for saying these things!
Do you think that, like the Amish and the Mennonites who migrated to America in the 17th to 18th centuries, like the Huguenots who emigrated to Holland in the time of Louis XIV, and even like the Jews who migrated to Israel to seek respite from the pogroms that had pursued them throughout history, there will come to be formed in places across the globe communities of honest, good-living, level-headed people from the States who have left their home country to find a better, more tolerant, freer life outside of what was once regarded, rightly or no, as the grand bastion of freedom?
My wife and I have a second home in the Mayan highlands of southern Mexico and feel very fortunate to have the option of moving there. I hope our youngest son moves there but he’ll have to make his own decision. I’ve seen so many unhappy young people here. There is another life to be had. I weep for the country I feel we have lost.
Walter, to be honest I don't see it as a United country anymore. I think of us as 50 separate countries after this election. Do we have anything in common anymore? I think the EU members have more in common than the people in the 50 states.
Maybe the correct question is will the United States passport be recognized or let into other countries? They may now look at us as a danger to their democracies. Will they let us in? Are our passports valid? I think that is why you see so many people getting second passports just in case.
Why would anyone pay money for this nonsense of leaving the United States for a better country. Please leave and stop hurting our country with your politically correct, virtue signaling, look at poor me nonsense. W. Manion, MDPhDJDMBA
As someone who has relatives in the liberal parts of the EU and other places, I gave some thought to leaving. However, at 75, I’m a “short timer” and I have cats who can’t travel. Furthermore, the whole world is in danger not only due the growth of fascist autocracy. Women everywhere (especially white women) are being told that they must have more babies. Human overpopulation is making the planet uninhabitable, and Mars, even if Elon would allow me into his colony if he ever gets there with his sister-wives, is not the place I want to be.
I was not advising any of my two brilliant children to live abroad. We just had the first free elections in 1990 when they were students in the finest universities in our home country Hungary. Speaking native level of English (I used to work in Washington as a diplomat) and learning diligently more languages (son Zsolt didn't stop until 9, daughter Csilla until 6), they could go to just opened scholarships in Europe wherever they wanted. Both of them were hired to top international corporate jobs, graduated from top INSEAD business school, getting offers from other large corporations, married to English and Dutch spouses, and with a few happy temporary years aside, they continued in managerial corporate jobs from Bangkok to California, and several West European headquarters. They bought houses for the retired years in Paris and London, respectively.
They always informed me about the changes in their carrier but I could only advise whether to continue in Copenhagen or Geneva. Not in Budapest, as for 14 continuous years ( we have no term limits in our constitution) Trumps best friend Viktor Orbán is busy to sink Hungary to the bog of corruption.
Thanks for your supporting words. Without WhatsApp, it would be much much worse. For me, relocation wouldn't work. I belong here. After 80 it is getting more and more difficult but I survive, and find purpose to my life. One of the five grandchildren lives here, has just started his first serious job and comes with me for a Pheasant hunt once in a while. Shoots much better than I.
It is, Walter. Their retired years seam stable. But for me, being unable to physically hug them but twice in a year and sitting alone in my kitchen, where my dear late wife cooked me lunch 2,5 years ago for the last time, is tough.
I'm sorry to hear that. Fortunately video conferencing allows us to be more connected than ever before, but hugs don't travel online. Still, knowing that they are safe and in a stable place must be a great relief. Might you be able to relocate and get closer to them?
I can’t find the text to read your post. I have a hearing disability and prefer to read the words since I can’t hear all you say. I wish the text was also available.
Let's think this through instead of short term. The long game says in order for you to leave this country, another country has to let you in. If other countries are mistreated by your government and elected leaders and stop you at their entry points...and the only place you can go to is China or Russia, how's that working for you?
Right. It's not about control. We depend on the State Department and Executive Branch to work on relationships with countries we need and want to visit. The next administration has already signaled they want to do the bidding of Russia and China and disrespect or put demands on countries which have been our allies a long time. To your point, there are options.... today. Think long term and what will the relationship with those countries be when Trump tramples all progress made by previous leaders?
After the election apparently there was a spike of people looking up "how to move to New Zealand", we definitely have our own challenges but I'd hazard a guess that we're still a nicer place to live than the US 🫣
I'm a big believer in adventures. Spending a year abroad would be a great one, and moving may be the right choice for some. Personally, I'm not ready to give up on the American experiment. We've been though rough patches before, and although we've lost a battle, the war is far from over. Remember that the majority of citizens are in favor of choice, gun control, human rights, democracy, and the greater good. If we can find our way to a shared truth the future can still be brighter.
As a Jew, the only place I would go is Israel. No other country is safe, and Israel is at war.
Antisemitism (anti-Jewish sentiment) is always the canary in the coal mine when fascism rears its ugly head again. The canary died. It died on 10/7, it died on college campuses with students for Palestine, harassment of Jewish students, and no official able to decide if calling for the death of their Jewish students constitutes a "hate crime" or not. Pictures of babies kidnapped by Hamas town off walls. Buildings ransacked and defaced, all in the name of Palestine. "Queers for Gaza" were loud and proud, with zero clue they would be killed on the spot should they magically appear in Gaza. Anti-Jewish terror is alive and well all over the world. It never went away, it just went underground.
Imagine college students cheering on Al Queda after 9/11? Would that have been tolerated by the USA, their colleges and the world?
Trump is just a symptom of a cancer infecting humanity. We had a chance to stop it - now it has metastasized, We may not survive it this time.
It’s sad that conversations like this need to occur. But I understand and applaud the open discussion
Thank you!
I like the frank discussion. I would not worry about the naysayers. I also don’t worry about anyone has initials behind their name. I love visiting other countries and will continue to do so. Thanks for saying these things!
Thanks for reading!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/20/thousands-eager-escape-trump-keen-snap-up-1-sardinian-home-mayor
Do you think that, like the Amish and the Mennonites who migrated to America in the 17th to 18th centuries, like the Huguenots who emigrated to Holland in the time of Louis XIV, and even like the Jews who migrated to Israel to seek respite from the pogroms that had pursued them throughout history, there will come to be formed in places across the globe communities of honest, good-living, level-headed people from the States who have left their home country to find a better, more tolerant, freer life outside of what was once regarded, rightly or no, as the grand bastion of freedom?
I hope so.
My wife and I have a second home in the Mayan highlands of southern Mexico and feel very fortunate to have the option of moving there. I hope our youngest son moves there but he’ll have to make his own decision. I’ve seen so many unhappy young people here. There is another life to be had. I weep for the country I feel we have lost.
I feel the same.
Walter, to be honest I don't see it as a United country anymore. I think of us as 50 separate countries after this election. Do we have anything in common anymore? I think the EU members have more in common than the people in the 50 states.
Maybe the correct question is will the United States passport be recognized or let into other countries? They may now look at us as a danger to their democracies. Will they let us in? Are our passports valid? I think that is why you see so many people getting second passports just in case.
I expect for the time being we can still move, but it might become more difficult soon.
Why would anyone pay money for this nonsense of leaving the United States for a better country. Please leave and stop hurting our country with your politically correct, virtue signaling, look at poor me nonsense. W. Manion, MDPhDJDMBA
When you stop whining magat.
As someone who has relatives in the liberal parts of the EU and other places, I gave some thought to leaving. However, at 75, I’m a “short timer” and I have cats who can’t travel. Furthermore, the whole world is in danger not only due the growth of fascist autocracy. Women everywhere (especially white women) are being told that they must have more babies. Human overpopulation is making the planet uninhabitable, and Mars, even if Elon would allow me into his colony if he ever gets there with his sister-wives, is not the place I want to be.
I often wonder where my kids will end up. I want so much to stay close to them.
Walter,
I was not advising any of my two brilliant children to live abroad. We just had the first free elections in 1990 when they were students in the finest universities in our home country Hungary. Speaking native level of English (I used to work in Washington as a diplomat) and learning diligently more languages (son Zsolt didn't stop until 9, daughter Csilla until 6), they could go to just opened scholarships in Europe wherever they wanted. Both of them were hired to top international corporate jobs, graduated from top INSEAD business school, getting offers from other large corporations, married to English and Dutch spouses, and with a few happy temporary years aside, they continued in managerial corporate jobs from Bangkok to California, and several West European headquarters. They bought houses for the retired years in Paris and London, respectively.
They always informed me about the changes in their carrier but I could only advise whether to continue in Copenhagen or Geneva. Not in Budapest, as for 14 continuous years ( we have no term limits in our constitution) Trumps best friend Viktor Orbán is busy to sink Hungary to the bog of corruption.
Thanks for your supporting words. Without WhatsApp, it would be much much worse. For me, relocation wouldn't work. I belong here. After 80 it is getting more and more difficult but I survive, and find purpose to my life. One of the five grandchildren lives here, has just started his first serious job and comes with me for a Pheasant hunt once in a while. Shoots much better than I.
That's wonderful! I'm glad you have at least one of your grandchildren nearby!
👍
I'm glad they had so many opportunities. That must be a relief as a parent.
It is, Walter. Their retired years seam stable. But for me, being unable to physically hug them but twice in a year and sitting alone in my kitchen, where my dear late wife cooked me lunch 2,5 years ago for the last time, is tough.
I'm sorry to hear that. Fortunately video conferencing allows us to be more connected than ever before, but hugs don't travel online. Still, knowing that they are safe and in a stable place must be a great relief. Might you be able to relocate and get closer to them?
I can’t find the text to read your post. I have a hearing disability and prefer to read the words since I can’t hear all you say. I wish the text was also available.
I added the link. Sorry about that Jocelyn. My friend Jason Provencio featured this story on his blog, so the text is posted there.
Let's think this through instead of short term. The long game says in order for you to leave this country, another country has to let you in. If other countries are mistreated by your government and elected leaders and stop you at their entry points...and the only place you can go to is China or Russia, how's that working for you?
I don't think China and Russia control the world as of yet. There are plenty of options.
Right. It's not about control. We depend on the State Department and Executive Branch to work on relationships with countries we need and want to visit. The next administration has already signaled they want to do the bidding of Russia and China and disrespect or put demands on countries which have been our allies a long time. To your point, there are options.... today. Think long term and what will the relationship with those countries be when Trump tramples all progress made by previous leaders?
After the election apparently there was a spike of people looking up "how to move to New Zealand", we definitely have our own challenges but I'd hazard a guess that we're still a nicer place to live than the US 🫣
I expect so too. Can you fill in a form to recommend me :)
Lol I'll happily be your character reference 😉
I'm a big believer in adventures. Spending a year abroad would be a great one, and moving may be the right choice for some. Personally, I'm not ready to give up on the American experiment. We've been though rough patches before, and although we've lost a battle, the war is far from over. Remember that the majority of citizens are in favor of choice, gun control, human rights, democracy, and the greater good. If we can find our way to a shared truth the future can still be brighter.
I agree.
Where to go?
As a Jew, the only place I would go is Israel. No other country is safe, and Israel is at war.
Antisemitism (anti-Jewish sentiment) is always the canary in the coal mine when fascism rears its ugly head again. The canary died. It died on 10/7, it died on college campuses with students for Palestine, harassment of Jewish students, and no official able to decide if calling for the death of their Jewish students constitutes a "hate crime" or not. Pictures of babies kidnapped by Hamas town off walls. Buildings ransacked and defaced, all in the name of Palestine. "Queers for Gaza" were loud and proud, with zero clue they would be killed on the spot should they magically appear in Gaza. Anti-Jewish terror is alive and well all over the world. It never went away, it just went underground.
Imagine college students cheering on Al Queda after 9/11? Would that have been tolerated by the USA, their colleges and the world?
Trump is just a symptom of a cancer infecting humanity. We had a chance to stop it - now it has metastasized, We may not survive it this time.
A lot of other countries are safe